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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II
Say Neigh to Gatsos
Joined: 11-April-2003
Location: Please let it be Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 6381
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Posted: 06-April-2005 at 18:39 |
Dergside wrote:
Philip wrote:
RV8's were VERY popular in Japan I believe. |
If they are so popular, why are the classifieds in the various classic mags featuring some many of them back here again? |
Some were sold on the UK market, not just Japan.
It takes a certain mentality (i.e. "classic car = "investment" - bwahahahahaha) to go all the way to Japan to bring back a car which was shipped out there in the first place.....
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rubberknees50
Really Senior Member II
Does it have chrome bumpers?
Joined: 26-July-2004
Location: Telford, Shropshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1074
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Posted: 06-April-2005 at 19:07 |
Following with interest (when I can get on pooter), I see Nigels point about work rahter than dole money, also Peter Fenwicks.
It is certainly true it's a british trait to rubbish our own and praise competitors, the build quality hasn't always been good but Rover have often been at the cutting edge, the P6 and the SD1 were good cars. My fahter in law and brother in law had 800 series, if you got a good one it was great, many weren't, similar prob to Stag years ago?
On the TV earlier tonight they asked a car supermarket and customers what they though of Rovers, customers quoted reliability probs, rover no longer main stream producer, old fashioned etc etc. Car supermarket said no reliability probs with rovers, style a bit dated but main prob customers thought they were second class cars, like Skoda a few years back. It would be a shame to lose Rover forever but I'm not sold on the chinese deal.
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IanT
E28 528, E23 735
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Dergside
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 16-May-2004
Location: Mid West, Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 4000
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Posted: 06-April-2005 at 19:20 |
Doive wrote:
but BMW raided the Rover piggy bank and headed back to Munich with all the money and development ideas, plus MINI, Land Rover and everything else worth taking. MG Rover has some fantastic engineers in the company, but sadly zero cash to allow them to do anything |
Sorry, I disagree completely with the notion of BMW asset stripping Rover. The cupboard was bare from the start. It became a black hole for BMW's money to the extent that it would soon have threatened BMW's survival. A non-existent pipeline of truely new and competitive products, archaic industrial relations and work practices and other such issues were the reason they bailed (someone made the comment about the people that Rover in all its incarnations trained in trades, etc. - a complete waste - for Rover, if they were undertaking the cost of training people for other companies to benefit from the productivity associated with the training - a noble gesture, but very poor business). There was no prospect of turning the the situation around. They extracted some value by hiving off Land-Rover to Ford and bringing the MINI brand (and remember it wasn't even a brand before that, it was an Austin Mini, Rover Mini). They already paid for the engineering development, so why not take it, but remember, they gave the incoming management a dowry of several hundred million quid to take the thing off their hands, cheaper than continuing to throw money in to a black hole. The incoming management decided that a good chunk of that dowry WOULDN'T be spent on product development (or at least anything that would likely produce an economic return - e.g. MG V8) and that it should be used to reward them for their "risk". Lets face it, they risked a quid. The rate of return for them on that quid has been pretty good.
Rover, BL, whatever name you want to put on it has suffered because it has not been able to keep up with the rate of change in the motor industry, not just for the past 5 years, but for the past 30 years. It needs to be have the dynamic flexibility and capability to turn on a sixpence but instead better resembles the Queen Mary trying to do a handbrake turn.
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Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.
Prev: e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci. e39 523i SE. e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE. e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i.
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Dergside
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 16-May-2004
Location: Mid West, Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 4000
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Posted: 06-April-2005 at 19:29 |
Horsetan wrote:
Some were sold on the UK market, not just Japan.
It takes a certain mentality (i.e. "classic car = "investment" - bwahahahahaha) to go all the way to Japan to bring back a car which was shipped out there in the first place..... |
True, some were sold in the UK, but read any of the "Drive the ads" type references to them recently and you'll find that the cars are re-imports, likewise the auction sale reports. Probably half of the RV8's currently for sale in the UK are Jap imports.
Re. the certain mentality, there are a 100,000 Jap import Nissan Micras here too and few Mercedes, BMW's, etc. making there way back!
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Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.
Prev: e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci. e39 523i SE. e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE. e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i.
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard
Joined: 02-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
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Posted: 06-April-2005 at 19:30 |
Dergside wrote:
Sorry, I disagree completely with the notion of BMW asset stripping Rover. The cupboard was bare from the start. It became a black hole for BMW's money to the extent that it would soon have threatened BMW's survival. A non-existent pipeline of truely new and competitive products, archaic industrial relations and work practices and other such issues were the reason they bailed (someone made the comment about the people that Rover in all its incarnations trained in trades, etc. - a complete waste - for Rover, if they were undertaking the cost of training people for other companies to benefit from the productivity associated with the training - a noble gesture, but very poor business). |
Ah! So it's not just me, then...
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Ciao,
Spokey
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Peter H
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 03-January-2004
Location: Worcestershire/Ost Bayern
Status: Offline
Points: 927
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 02:23 |
Doive wrote:
the only profitable part of Ford is now Land Rover - |
Think you will find the most profitable Ford company after the Finance arm is Volvo, only part of PAG to be making money because Ford has not tried to control them
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Das Wolperdinger
AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II
Say Neigh to Gatsos
Joined: 11-April-2003
Location: Please let it be Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 6381
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 16:47 |
Dergside wrote:
.... Re. the certain mentality, there are a 100,000 Jap import Nissan Micras here too |
...which were built in Tyne & Wear....
The Nissan Micra. I drove one once. Never again.
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Coasting
Really Senior Member II
www.TOTALTORQUE.net
Joined: 05-February-2005
Location: Not with the two-faced bloke.
Status: Offline
Points: 2125
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:03 |
THE END OF THE LINE
Well I'll never. I was wrong - they did the right thing to stop the taxpayer pouring more money down the drain...
...they've let them go bust.
At last, Tony makes the right decision.
Sorry to those that don't agree with me, but I'm sick of keeping up failed businesses with taxpayers money and in my opinion the right thing has happened.
I'm sad for Rover, and I'm sad for the employees, but their plight and that of supporting a failed business are entirely different things.
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II
Say Neigh to Gatsos
Joined: 11-April-2003
Location: Please let it be Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 6381
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:08 |
OK! Bring on the Asset Strippers.
Oh...wait...no.... is there anything left to strip?
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004
Location: Elgin
Status: Offline
Points: 7213
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:11 |
is this breaking news? i havent seen the news since 6 o clock, just checked on the bbc news site, theyve got a rather desperate plea from mgr executive Peter Beale:
We need just £100m to see us through the next couple of weeks
sounds like the plight of a junkie, "im good for it, go on, just one more hit, ill pay you back double next week"
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto
1983 Ford Sierra XR4i
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118
1999 BMW 323Ci
1995 BMW 318i SE
1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS
1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX
1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX
1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL
1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004
Location: Elgin
Status: Offline
Points: 7213
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:14 |
Horsetan wrote:
OK! Bring on the Asset Strippers |
dah, da da daaaa, dee dee dee deeee, dah da daaaa, da dad a da da
(the striptease music)
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto
1983 Ford Sierra XR4i
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118
1999 BMW 323Ci
1995 BMW 318i SE
1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS
1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX
1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX
1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL
1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6941
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:14 |
You are all wrong about the training being bad business.......I think.
It has always been that way with apprenticeships.
The taxpayer trained me via the airforce, and government has always part funded training.
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Best Wishes
Nigel
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Philip
Really Senior Member II
E23 the forgotten 80s BMW
Joined: 28-January-2005
Location: Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 1425
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:29 |
stephenperry wrote:
mgr executive Peter Beale:
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is he the same Pete Beale that used to sell fruit & veg on Walford Market (Eastenders).
Maybe a crafty cockney spiv can save Rover?
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Philip
'86 E23 735iA SE - Polaris - The Silver Surfer
'85 E23 735iA SE - Cosmos Blue - VJ
'86 E28 528iA SE - Dia Black - Helga
'86 E23 728iA SE - Polaris - The CHAV mobile
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004
Location: Elgin
Status: Offline
Points: 7213
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:32 |
you know, thats exactly what i said when it came on the telly
"didnt he used to be a character in eastenders?" lol
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto
1983 Ford Sierra XR4i
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118
1999 BMW 323Ci
1995 BMW 318i SE
1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS
1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX
1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX
1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL
1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II
Say Neigh to Gatsos
Joined: 11-April-2003
Location: Please let it be Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 6381
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:48 |
stephenperry wrote:
Horsetan wrote:
OK! Bring on the Asset Strippers |
dah, da da daaaa, dee dee dee deeee, dah da daaaa, da dad a da da
(the striptease music) |
Rover: Going for a Thong...
*groan*
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6941
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:53 |
Maybe we could raffle horsey ?
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Best Wishes
Nigel
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004
Location: Elgin
Status: Offline
Points: 7213
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:54 |
Horsetan wrote:
stephenperry wrote:
Horsetan wrote:
OK! Bring on the Asset Strippers |
dah, da da daaaa, dee dee dee deeee, dah da daaaa, da dad a da da
(the striptease music)
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Rover: Going for a Thong...
*groan* |
rofl :-D
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto
1983 Ford Sierra XR4i
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118
1999 BMW 323Ci
1995 BMW 318i SE
1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS
1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX
1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX
1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL
1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004
Location: Elgin
Status: Offline
Points: 7213
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:54 |
Nigel wrote:
Maybe we could raffle horsey ? |
nah, thats the booby prize *groan*
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto
1983 Ford Sierra XR4i
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118
1999 BMW 323Ci
1995 BMW 318i SE
1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS
1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX
1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX
1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL
1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II
Say Neigh to Gatsos
Joined: 11-April-2003
Location: Please let it be Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 6381
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:55 |
stephenperry wrote:
Nigel wrote:
Maybe we could raffle horsey ? |
nah, thats the booby prize *groan* |
By your standards, that's pants
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004
Location: Elgin
Status: Offline
Points: 7213
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Posted: 07-April-2005 at 17:57 |
no its not, stop talking out of your a***
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto
1983 Ford Sierra XR4i
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118
1999 BMW 323Ci
1995 BMW 318i SE
1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS
1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX
1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX
1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL
1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly
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