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Dergside 
Really Senior Member II 
Joined: 16-May-2004 Location: Mid West, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 4000 |
 Posted: 22-November-2004 at 13:46 |
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Had thought about this aspect too, remember the Japanese motor industry started life building Austin 7's (I think) under license..... If you go all the way back, you'll find this was one of the first nails in the coffin of the British motor industry. They didn't figure they Japanese would figure out how to do it themselves and make it better and turn the tables. History may be about to repeat itself. The Chinese motor industry can't, at the moment, compete with the VW, BMW, etc. technology being used in joint venture factories there (the makers can't set up alone, has to be part of a joint venture with local partners). This was a handicap that it took Japan years to overcome as it built up its engineering and product development skills. Rover may be a bit behind the rest in engineering terms at the moment, but a billion quid is a cheap way of buying the 10 or 15 years of advantage that Rover in turn have over the Chinese brands. They'll put huge numbers of engineers to work, learning what Rover have and improving it at a fraction of the cost of engineering in the rest of the world. The university system there gives them access to huge pools of skills that may not have all the practical experience they need. Its the next phase of asset stripping, consistent with what has been happening for the last few years. Edited by Dergside |
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor 
Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 14:01 |
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It isn't that long ago that China was on the world's blacklist of
countries with human rights failings, and with that came anti trading
sanctions etc. China has proved itself in recent times to be a
viable business partner and has improved its record on human
rights. Whatever the 'deal' is or was regarding Rover, one thing
is for certain, both the UK and China will benefit in many ways from
it, and not just in employment or finances.
Corporate back scratching is not just the territory of business, its between countries, regimes and continents alike. The UK has their 'saviour' for Rover and its employees, China will have come out of this very well also, cos despite the changes within that country and the almost disappearance of communism over the years, they don't enter into any agreements unless it has some significant benefit to them and their people. I suspect the main reason will be the much needed injection of technological advances that they have sorely lacked for so long. The Chinese were suffocated under their former leaders, and in some respects they still are today, this is entirely due to their outcasting from the world over the last 100 years. Rover are the latest in a very long and very distiguished line of manufacturers from all over the world who have stepped up and welcomed China back into the fold and made it a recognised country for trade and other assistance to help its people grow and prosper. This does not mean, however, that Rover or any other company, will be sold short or forgotten or discarded by this country. This country will still hold the purse strings and this country will still have overall control of what does and does not happen.....which includes the closure of plant and the loss of employment. Both sides should be actively encouraged to succeed in this venture, and in years to come China will become a more technologically advanced country and we in the UK will learn more about their country, their resources, their lives and their culture. |
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October 2-6 2008 - Houston, Texas - Long Distance Wedding
March 15-April 1 2009 - Transatlantic Cruise October 10-25 2009 - China, Korea, Taiwan & Japan Cruise |
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Peter H
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 03-January-2004 Location: Worcestershire/Ost Bayern Status: Offline Points: 927 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 14:19 |
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No safeway is open till late & there are a few pubs round there
On a serious note car production Will still be there in 12 Mths, rather than pre judge the situation wait to see what is announced at end of January |
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Das Wolperdinger
AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004 Location: Elgin Status: Offline Points: 7213 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 14:24 |
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Why would this be so, when MGR will only have 30%, no longer have a controlling share in the company? |
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 14:28 |
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Never fear, no matter how well China has improved since the student uprising in 1992, our Government will have put some very very fine print in relation to employment and plant....specially since you have to remember one tiny detail....the unions in this country are still Labour orientated and this Government is in enough poo at the moment without causing problems with unions that could and would cripple the Labour party in the forthcoming general elections next year. The Government may be inept in alot of things, but they won't cut their throat where dealing with unions are concerned. Look back through history in the last 30 yrs.....1970's general blue collar workers went on strike and brought down the Government of the day...1984 Miners strike..damaged Thatcher's Government..there is no way that this close to a general election that Labour will commit political suicide by alienating the unions within the motor industry in this country. The unions may have been quieter in recent years but they can still make or break a Government and bring the country to its knees. Edited by Goldryder |
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October 2-6 2008 - Houston, Texas - Long Distance Wedding
March 15-April 1 2009 - Transatlantic Cruise October 10-25 2009 - China, Korea, Taiwan & Japan Cruise |
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Peter H
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 03-January-2004 Location: Worcestershire/Ost Bayern Status: Offline Points: 927 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 15:03 |
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Because as has been said several times in interviews a NEW JOINT VENTURE COMPANY is being formed. THIS COMPANY will be 70% Owned by SAIC & 30% by MGR. Longbridge will still be 100% owned by MGR & SIAC will own 100% of their existing plants in china |
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Das Wolperdinger
AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004 Location: Elgin Status: Offline Points: 7213 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 15:29 |
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=a.3Y m361sbPU&refer=asia Shanghai International Auto Corp.... "The Biggest Car Company You've Never Heard Of" Wasn't that Daewoos tagline for rebadging old Mk2 Vauxhall Cavaliers and Astras? Another example of a foreign car company trying to buy into the British car market by reusing old technology wrapped up in some new badges.
They went to the wall too... |
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 15:40 |
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Like Peter said earlier, lets reserve judgement til everything is signed, sealed and delivered.
At the end of the day whether Longbridge remains open for 12 months, 12 yrs or 22 yrs from now, it has to be a good thing for the people of the area who have had more than their fair share of problems.... Don't forget that one of the biggest disasters regarding the British Motor Industry was one of our very own and it involved the very same company that has been given a lifeline again now. British Leyland virtually destroyed the marque, they brought out lousy cars made with cheap materials and had the worst workforce relations record of all time. This business partnership has to be given opportunity to either sink or swim and the odds are against it sinking. The firm has fought back against all sorts of difficulties in the past and they will again. The tie ups with Honda and BMW were no different to what the Chinese are doing, granted Honda and BMW are well known and respected marques and the Chinese aren't well known, but that has nothing to do with the company its down to the regime that it has had to survive in. TVR is owned by a Russian and hasn't failed despite all the cynical remarks at the time, car manufacturers often change hands/nationalities, but that doesn't always mean the company is doomed to fail. This partnership deserves all the assistance it can get, whether it be financial or otherwise. Don't be the rat escaping from the ship before it even leaves the dockside, let alone starts to sink. Edited by Goldryder |
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October 2-6 2008 - Houston, Texas - Long Distance Wedding
March 15-April 1 2009 - Transatlantic Cruise October 10-25 2009 - China, Korea, Taiwan & Japan Cruise |
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Daz
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 03-August-2004 Location: Dubai Status: Offline Points: 1497 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 15:58 |
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I want to see Rover do well as they have a plant in the UK. And I'm sick of seeing jobs exported abroad!! I think the original topic was about the Chinese investment worrying BM dubya! I take it you do not then know about BMW already having a foothold in that huge market. Unlike Rover, BMW will still own the company and were clever enough to avoid state control. I am not super loyal to BMW if there cars suck I say so. Look at the new 5 (I'd rather not). Or the 7. Chris bUngle should be shot - twice just to make sure. I'll let the 6 pass. The X3 belongs in the skip as does the 1 and the compact E46 is hideous. Not sure if bungle did this but I don't care it sucks. My point is if a car is good I will like it regardless of brand. I hate Audi's as they are wrong wheel drive but can't help loving the RS6. There was a point in there somewhere. Darren
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 2009 E92 M3 - Milltek |
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Peter H
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 03-January-2004 Location: Worcestershire/Ost Bayern Status: Offline Points: 927 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 16:02 |
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Ah............. That would be the great wall of China ?? |
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Das Wolperdinger
AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004 Location: Elgin Status: Offline Points: 7213 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 16:08 |
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maybe i should have said going to the wall... http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=107 86 you cant deny that Mr Great British Public demands more these days than the Nexia and Espero could provide at the time, in much the same way as the Indian-sourced CityRover is suffering now Edited by stephenperry |
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
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Peter H
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 03-January-2004 Location: Worcestershire/Ost Bayern Status: Offline Points: 927 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 16:14 |
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And a 4yr old article about Daewoo is central to your point ?
This has nothing to do with the origional question ? Edited by Peter H |
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Das Wolperdinger
AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004 Location: Elgin Status: Offline Points: 7213 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 16:17 |
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there ive changed it to one thats from this year at least, and it still paints a less than rosy picture my point is that it is an example of another company that attempted what MGR/SAIC is trying to do and failed |
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004 Location: Elgin Status: Offline Points: 7213 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 16:19 |
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oh im sorry, who died and made you moderator? and this has what to do with the original post again? please enlighten me, im sure we'd all like to know the source of your spitefulness Edited by stephenperry |
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 16:19 |
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The Korean motor industry is entirely different. Daewoo are not
just car builders, they build ships, including some of the largest LPG
and oil tankers in the world, they are an extremely large and diverse
company, which when faced with considerable problems with breaking into
an already overcrowded European market they wisely cut their losses and
were bought out, but they have not gone to the wall or vanished from
the scene. Another firm of similar 'history' is SSangyong, they
did a deal with Mitsubishi.....Fiat and Seat did the same.....every
company sells their technology to others in the same field. Its
why, unfortunately, there are so many cars on the road that look like
jelly moulds now and in past years cars like the Miriafiori and the
Astra came back rebadged as a Daewoo and in some cases cosmetically
changed. Incidently Daewoo has a business partner of their
own..GM..the same GM who build Pontiacs in the States, Holdens in
Australia, Opels in Germany, Vauxhalls in UK...
Underneath the headlines of companies going under, being bought out and surviving there are always venture capitalists in the background, looking after things......not forgetting the Governments who subsidise heavily too. This Chinese deal can only do Rover good, cos as things have shown in the past no-one else has really managed to get it right, so why not let an unknown try...lets face it, things couldn't get any worse, can they? BL almost killed it, Honda was treated shoddily and BMW just couldn't cut the medium range/price market cos they have too many models of their own there already. |
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October 2-6 2008 - Houston, Texas - Long Distance Wedding
March 15-April 1 2009 - Transatlantic Cruise October 10-25 2009 - China, Korea, Taiwan & Japan Cruise |
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Peter H
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 03-January-2004 Location: Worcestershire/Ost Bayern Status: Offline Points: 927 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 16:24 |
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This was the origional question, you obviously say no, other people may have opinions that differ from yours |
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Das Wolperdinger
AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
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stephenperry
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 20-April-2004 Location: Elgin Status: Offline Points: 7213 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 16:27 |
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yes, and i respect other peoples opinions without resorting to making hateful comments
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2007 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X Auto 1983 Ford Sierra XR4i 2000 Alpina B10 3.3 #118 1999 BMW 323Ci 1995 BMW 318i SE 1994 Vauxhall Omega 2.0 GLS 1995 Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 1990 Honda Concerto 1.6 EX 1986 Ford Orion 1.6 GL 1989 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Firefly |
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Peter H
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 03-January-2004 Location: Worcestershire/Ost Bayern Status: Offline Points: 927 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 16:31 |
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Apologise for that, Was ment as joke, |
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Das Wolperdinger
AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 22-November-2004 at 16:56 |
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Until the deal for this business partnership is signed, sealed and
delivered, opinions will always be contentious and argumentative.
So until then, we can play ping pong with it til the cows come home but
its those heavily involved..ie the workers who will either benefit or
suffer in the end.
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October 2-6 2008 - Houston, Texas - Long Distance Wedding
March 15-April 1 2009 - Transatlantic Cruise October 10-25 2009 - China, Korea, Taiwan & Japan Cruise |
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-August-2003 Location: Lost somewhere in time... Status: Offline Points: 6484 |
Posted: 23-November-2004 at 04:42 |
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China trying to take over the world? I thought that was what the USA was trying to do! Longbridge closing down in 12 months? I doubt it but we should,wait and see. MG Rover going the same way as Daewoo!! Daewoo used out dated vauxhalls. Some of the Rover range might not be cutting edge but it's hardly the same thing. It strikes me that some people are almost wishing MGR and this new venture to fail. Investment by a chinease company is a good thing. China is one of the fastest growing economies with a corespondingly fast growing demand for cars.
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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BMW getting nervous about Rover??
Topic Options
B 7 VP wrote:
Tony Blair is doing his best to ensure the entire country is on the dole forget the fudged figures. A job working in ASDA! or a pub. Not good enuff. Britain can do beter than that. Give us back our call centres for a start!! These companies that desert the UK should be obscenly taxed 800% to teach them a lesson (HSBC one of many). Set up camp here or else face being priced out. Amongst many other things.. that's enough off topic for just now.
