Budget Day

Dergside - you are a mine of information. Not surprised to see diesels going down but surprised to see that some petrols are going down. Will this be based on manufacturers published figures or will there be some independent testing?

I think that basing on emissions is OK; it at least elliminates the loophole of turbo/supercharged and rotary engines being assessed on cc's.

The government has a right (obligation?) to put tax on things it deems to be undesirable. This incentivises choices. Large engined cars are a luxury and people have the choice to drive something smaller (cheaper, less polluting etc). Putting higher amounts of tax on fuel penalises people who, out of necessity commute considerable distances.

I would love to have an Alpina B12 but you would not hear me complain about tax if I bought one. It's a choice that comes with some reasonable penalties.

All cars since 2001 have a Certificate of Conformity (EU requirement) that includeds the CO2 output figure from the manufacturer.  Alternatively, it looks like the fgures will come from the manufacturers or distributors or a body approved by the Revenue to provide this information (I'd guess maybe the likes of the AA).

For imports, the person declaring the car will have to state what VRT category the car falls in to.  However, this will have to be supported by recognized supporting confirmations (i.e. a copy of the Certificate of Conformity, etc).  In the absence of proof of the output level the car will be charged by default at the highest rate of VRT.

redbag wrote: Dergside, just looking at the Co2 on the 520d for manual it is 136 and auto 149 g/km. So that means for manual it drops from 30% to 16%  and the auto from 30% to 20%?

Redbag, you are right in so far as a brand new 520d has a rating of 136 and 149 as you mentioned, but when first introduced in 2005 I understand that the figures were 158 and 185 (manual and auto) putting the manual in the 24% category and the auto in the 28% category.

Manufacturers have been moving fast in reducing co2 output levels over the past few years, so for example a '01 330i produced 218g/km whereas a brand new 330i produces 173 (both manual).

Just to point out, I've based my comments on details from http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/ and was particularly interested in the effect on secondhand cars, as per the examples, just in case I wasn't clear.

Dergside wrote: Redbag, you are right in so far as a brand new 520d has a rating of 136 and 149 as you mentioned, but when first introduced in 2005 I understand that the figures were 158 and 185 (manual and auto) putting the manual in the 24% category and the auto in the 28% category.

Crap, I was hoping on bringing in a 520d as the family transport next year, so the 06 model still has the higher emissions.. that new engine only came in on Sep 07.... Good spot Dergside... can see a few ppl getting caught with that one...

This is all very sound advice.

Unforteunately this wont be the end to this story. The gov is strapped for cash and while I understand that people dont wanna look to closely what the future holds the following aplies.

• The government doesn't give a toss about the climate. Neither do the other governments. They need money to function, and this money comes from tax intake. (mainly) They will maintain the income regardless what they have to do to get it.
• The housing market and the economy will not crash but they wont come up in a miracolous way either. There are some very tough years ahead for the people in this country as the dollar will fall further (up to 2€ to 1$) as the us fecked their economy and missed the change in the rest of the world. Credits will get more expensive regardless of the interrest rate development as it gets more difficult for banks to get credits themselves. Hence higher rates. So there will be a "loss" of income for the gov.
• Years ago diesel got substituted and everyone went for it as the fuel; was cheaper and so on. When short for cash this was quickly changed and now the price is even higher sometimes even so diesel is cheaper on the international market then petrol. Looks to m that a repeat is iminent again as on the continent there is some considerable worry about the fine dust and sooth particles emitted from diesel cars and, funny enough, woodchip burning stoves. This gets so bad that in germany france and italy there will be zones in cities where only cars are allowed in who have the newest of diesel particle filtration. And while the european bmws might have a diesel cat the uk/ireland cars dont have the particle filters. So there will be another chance to milk the car owners.

I'm getting very dismayed of the greens and the whole "green agenda" which is sold to us. This is just another cash cow and seeing that the gov is in desperate need for cash Gormlessly will get it his way and than gets the boot. Same as with fat marry in the health system. We the consumers are left in the cold till we stand up for ourselves and make politicians accountable.

So a brand new 520d as mentioned above will incur annual road tax of only €150 from Jul '08 ? Not a bad deal.

Like others I too would like to know where I stand with my E34 with no CO2 emmsions data available......