Disillusioned West Yorks

Considering what 'the famous five' have done thusfar, they have only made this forum and its members stronger and even more of a force to be reckoned with. They must realise by now that no matter what they say about anyone here, or do to anyone here, they are never going to come out on top.

This forum and its members can be what ever they want to be, the 'famous five' are only making themselves look impotent if they continue the tirades and defamation and mischief.

We have all shown that this forum has teeth and we aren't afraid to stand our ground...and most importantly...stand together. Which ever direction the forum takes...whether it be with the drivers club or a whole new proposition, the committee will know full well by now that if they take one person on here, they take us all on and by doing that, they are making their own positions untennable.

Time to look to future developments, whatever they may be. Through all of this, Killian, Howard, Nigel...everyone have survived as stronger and more determined than ever to make this forum united in which ever direction it takes from here on in.

I may not be a driver or owner anymore, but I can honestly say that I am damned proud to be a part of this forum and the future of it and everything it encompasses.

Nigel wrote: The main problem is most of the membership will now think Howard & Killian have done something dishonest.

That may have been true to some extent at first when all this started happening, but the fact that the committee are continuing to defame and show such open disrespect and outright hostility towards Killian and Howard is only making the committee less and less believable. They are literally shooting themselves in the feet by their tirades and lies and innuendo's...its almost laughable if it wasn't so totally pathetic. Their behaviour is what you would expect to find in a school playground with the bullyboys pushing their weight about, not in the slightest what should be expected from the leadership of a world renowned car club committee.

Anyone who believes what they are saying is true is either exceptionally naive are trying to brown-nose so much that the crap has blocked their line of vision. Anyone with an ounce of common sense will know that the only villains around this mess are those who perpetuated it in the first place...the committee.

Goldryder wrote: Nigel wrote: The main problem is most of the membership will now think Howard & Killian have done something dishonest. That may have been true to some extent at first when all this started happening

I firmly believe that I have not done anything wrong. Remember that this all started when the committee brought me over to the UK under false pretences to tell me that a decision had been made several months prior to the meeting (even before the AGM which I had attended). I and the other two moderators who attended the meeting offered alternatives to the issue the committee were using as their excuse. In the end I could not stand by and watch Jeff carry out the threat (of flicking the switch on the forum) he made to me shortly after Nigel banned him.
I have been accused of many things including of being uncooperative, etc. In fact I believe thet the opposite is true and with all of the actions that I have taken being declared to either all the other moderators or to the entire forum!

Killian, there will always be those who would believe the sun shines out of the committee's backside. You know that, its inevitable.

99.9% of this forum never believed you or Howard or anyone said/did anything wrong.

The biggest underestimate made by the committee and their pals is that they didn't bank on so many of us standing shoulder to shoulder with you, Killian, and Howard and Nigel.

Those who leave breadcrumb trails, for example.

why does a new drivers club need forming when the bmwcc is already in existance, thriving both financially and in membership, active with the regions, registers, local and national events ALL like they (and the former drivers club) have done for years.

It appears that none of the above is anything to do with the spirit of the club or its members BUT personnal feuds between H,K & N with the club chair(JH) & secretary(AD) to which very, very few are aware of ALL the facts from BOTH sides.

over the last 5/6 years the club has gone from strength to strength so the committee (past and pressent) must do alot right?? yet this thread runs a risk of disolving the bmwcc..WHY?? surely not just to get at J&A?? what about the ordinary, genuine members??

It goes without saying any un-fair treatment of any member should be properly addressed by the club and the situation with H,K & N clearly needs clarifying ASAP for the sake of the club.

I agree with what you say M3sportEvo.
There is already an excellent club in place with about 7 thousand members. There is no need to re-invent the wheel! Also I have never encouraged anyone to leave the club (in fact I believe I said the opposite)
However, the current system appears to be one where anyone critical of the leadership is axed so that their voice is no longer heard. This axing is reinforced by a PR exercise that conveys the impression that the leadership have done the right thing whereas the opposite is more likely to be true.
The club really does need a new chairman (and no employees should be directors furthermore). The club needs a chairman who is answerable to the membership. The club needs a chairman who will not use their position to try and bully their way. The cub needs a chairman who does not remove someone who performs a job for the club for free (because he won't abuse the Ferrari owners club copyright), only to replace them with a friend who gets paid. The club needs a chairman who will not insult a huge proportion of its membership (remember the tuppence E30s).

The overall picture is not going to change..This is a bit reminiscent of the F1 BMW/Williams split in 2005. Now Williams and BMW Sauber are still both competitive teams within the sport with both teams having promising drivers..maybe there is something in this..

TBH, the decisions that were made by the BMWCC commitee were FWD, and this forum is RWD, so lets move on and establish a way forward instead of looking back. There is no point really, I for one believe that Howard, Killian and Nigel are guilty of nothing! (apart from nigel banning JH)

I think that we all need to think of constructive comments on where to go next and what to do about it. The instrument of success is in the hands of Killian and the moderators to enforce, the forum has to be the most important medium for communication for all of us. Let us all as members of this forum, contribute ideas towards a better community and who knows, in the future, an eventual club..

First of all a correction. Despite many claims of 7000 members, the membership according to the club accounts in January 1 2006 was 4600 give or take a dozen or so. Suprisingly, this was exactly the same number as was recorded on January 1 2005, despite well over 1000 new members joining during 2005. Whether the fact that the club had to make a payment to BCE of 2 euros per member that year affected the membership numbers (they actually only reported and paid for 4094 to BCE) I do not know.

During my time on the board, I had to fight many a battle to get the accounts and other aspects of information correctly and truthfully reported, a point that particularly upset the Chairman and the Club Secretary, neither of which had a very great knowledge of accounting. The Secretary's knowledge did improve a little after he went on a training course at college to learn the Sage accounting system that I recommended for club use.

Whilst M3sportEvo may well consder that the current problem is purely a spat between myself, Killian and perhaps Nigel, that is not the case. The problem goes deeper than that, and is symptomatic of major problems within the clubs ruling body itself. It has a core of yes men and some who do not like to put their heads in the firing line. Myself and the Historic representatives were usually the only ones who dared to question the leader's policies seriously. All new members are head hunted by the chairman, appointed at his suggestion, and glossed over at the next AGM. I pointed this out in my resignation letter, stating that a more democratic method would be fairer. All I got in return was the usual rubbishing email from JH that is his wont.

Since Alan Kirkaldy published the notice in the last magazine, I have had over 20 people who have contacted me either by phone, email or post, and stated their disgust at the high handed action of the committee.
Most have stated that they will not rejoin the club. Usually around 5% of people who are annoyed about something actually bother to do anything, so that could amount to 400 or so who have read the letter and are annoyed. Many never read the letters page anyway.

There is one solution that would retain the benefits of the BMW Car club whilst getting rid of the culprits. Each year the club has an annual general meeting at which all members are able to attend and vote. Go to that and submit a proposition that gets rid of these guys. You only need to send around 30 or 40 people to swing the vote. It is essential to keep the pot on the boil between now and then.

In the meantime, despite what they have done to myself and Killian, I am still working to create a new BMW Umbrella in the UK, Ireland and the Scandinavian countries, which will benefit the BMW Car Club as much as anyone else in these countries.

Howard Walker


Edited by Howard

I don't think there has ever been a more appropiate time for the saying 'put your money where your mouth is'. The members of the club on this site who have voiced their doubts and disgust regarding the treatment of Howard, Killian and the others who have had their names and integrity dragged through the mud need to stand together at the next AGM and make their feelings not only known but stand together and put a vote of no confidence forward against the committee and especially the chairman of that committee. Then, and only then, will a loud enough voice be heard and the truth be known as to what has been going on...and have the now way overdue justice for those who have been treated in such a dispicable way carried out by the forced removal of the said committee and the chairman. A vote of no confidence is the only way to go and that can only be achieved by the members of this club standing shoulder to shoulder and speaking their minds in unison against those who have caused so much humiliation, anger and disrepute. The committee and chairman have removed their best and most respected people from the loop...at the AGM it should be payback time. Time to remove the cancer festering in the club hierachy once and for all....as Howard has said, it should take 30-40 votes to swing things away from the committee...make it 75-100 against...make the committee feel the wrath of the membership, make the committee feel what its like to have their integrity dragged through the mud. Put your money where your mouths are, stand up for what you believe in and stand strongly against those who are trying to destroy what has been built through the hard graft and loyalty of Howard, Killian and all the others who have been treated in this disgraceful way.

Edited by Goldryder

I am not a member, never have been of the club but I would go and show my unity with Killian, Howard and the others as I believe in them 100% and distrust those in the committee completely and utterly...even moreso after the disgraceful bullyboy tactics that they have adopted. I don't feel that the current committee or chairman have the good of the club nor its members as a priority. They have shown by their actions that they have no-one's interests but their own, and those who brown-nose with them are just as guilty of bringing the club and the BMW marque into the utmost disrepute.