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robmug View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 15:11

1. Why don't the power & torque curves cross at 5750rpm?

2. Why do they cross at different RPM for each run?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 15:47
Originally posted by robmug robmug wrote:

1. Why don't the power & torque curves cross at 5750rpm?


2. Why do they cross at different RPM for each run?



because the y axis are scaled differently
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 18:21
I think Paul rosche and his team of designers who built the E36 evo engine know what they are doing,is there any hard evidence that you get better fuel economy as well as performance,or maybe Mr rosche,and his team are not quite up to scratch
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 18:41

Thats a killer reply because your not just having a pop at me but at the likes of superchips, dms, rally sport, DRS etc etc.

When a map is designed by the manufacturer, in the case of the m3 e36 it was mapped by A Brand they mapped it for many variences, fuel rates, temps of locations etc etc.

The original power rating was done using 102 octane only availible at the pump in Asia.

There are masses of proven findings of better economy and better power from remaps, any search engine will take you to them.

 

If i can assist you further dont hesitate to ask.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 19:18
there is no doubt that a remap to an individual engine will/can be a improvement. Even if the peak hp stays the same, the driveability can be improved.
Some engines gain more, others less (talking of the same type engines, not different engines).
But by mapping out all the factory "safety" values, you also assume that the car is ALWAYS running in top condition with the best fuel quality available. Any deteriation of components, sensors etc could be at the edge of the map. ( I wrote COULD)

It's just these 20phb increases on a nearly 100bhp per litre engine which sound to good to be true.
And if they have achieve this sort of power only with 102 Octane fuel, how can a "chipper" achieve it with 98Octane available over her? (if it really is true 98 Octane what they sell us at the pumps)
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 21:12

My M3 was "only" 281 Hp. Now it has 307 Hp. I think that's quiet good. And I can really feel the difference. I don't think it's a placebo effect. The mapping doesn't give you that much power and I really don't need it either, but like the rest of us in this forum I think it's fun modifying the car to what I believe is right. I also think that people mapping their car take car of them very well I.e changing oil, sparkplugs etc often.

Tha best thing with this is that I have everything black and white. I've done a dyno before and after and you can see the difference.

Of course you can argue on everything. Type of dyno, temp, fuel, setup, software in dyno etc etc. But the main thing is that I'm satisfied with the work I paid for. I think Jayson is a clever man that knows what he's doing. And I can recommend him to everybody.

After all we're just people trying to have fun with our beemers.

/Henrik

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 21:16
Originally posted by B738 B738 wrote:

My M3 was "only" 281 Hp. Now it has 307 Hp. I think that's quiet good. And I can really feel the difference. I don't think it's a placebo effect. The mapping doesn't give you that much power and I really don't need it either, but like the rest of us in this forum I think it's fun modifying the car to what I believe is right. I also think that people mapping their car take car of them very well I.e changing oil, sparkplugs etc often.


Tha best thing with this is that I have everything black and white. I've done a dyno before and after and you can see the difference.


/Henrik



as long you are happy with what you've paid for. That's the main thing. You know your car best and the before and after feeling. Whatever the numbers on paper say.
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 21:18
BMW M3 EVO E36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 21:57

Ooooo.....Jayson, was going to send me a standard SE chip, knew I was desperate, and assured me that he would deliver it - but what was posted on another topic a couple of months ago (which I had my reservations about) seem to be sorta true. I never recieved the chip atall. He was going to kindly send it free, which I appreciated, but I was dissappointed when it never turned up. Thanks to Stevesingo who save the day for me with his SE ECU.

Also, I wanted to become a dealer for Chipped UK and given the location and my reputation at my place of work it would have been a great oppertunity for me and Jayson. Unfortunately he seems to busy to sort anything like this out.

I know you do some good work Jayson, but I am a tad dissappointed in all honesty.

Also, as tyres heat up, depending on the dyno ofcourse, if they get too hot they can actually reduce drag. I have never known a car to increase transmission losses after a re-map. But maybe loose 20-30BHP from running it from cold to hot. Flywheel the same on every run, but wheel power actually increasing.

Anyway, thats a whole different story  



Edited by SHEPSM3
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 22:33

I sent you a standard chip as promised, i didnt charge for it as i did it as a favour.My numbers are plastered everywhere yet you never called me ?

As for the dealership, yes, im busy, extremely busy, having to fit 22 dyno`s around the uk, deliver maps too 14 dealers and continue to make sure the company runs smoothly isnt an easy task.

If anyone ever has any issue all i ever ask is for them to call me.

I cant always answer emails within 10 minutes but im always at the end of a phone line.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 22:49
Originally posted by chippeduk chippeduk wrote:

I sent you a standard chip as promised, i didnt charge for it as i did it as a favour.My numbers are plastered everywhere yet you never called me ?

As for the dealership, yes, im busy, extremely busy, having to fit 22 dyno`s around the uk, deliver maps too 14 dealers and continue to make sure the company runs smoothly isnt an easy task.

If anyone ever has any issue all i ever ask is for them to call me.

I cant always answer emails within 10 minutes but im always at the end of a phone line.

I beg to differ Jayson. The chip never arrived at either address I emailed you.  I would have paid you lots ok money for the chip as I was desperate for it, you said you would send it free of charge, although I appreciated your offer, it was your choice. As it was I managed to borrow one from Stevesingo as I wondered if it would turn up in time.

It would have made NO difference if I called you or not, as I was only at Dastek for 2 days and you certainly wouldn't have got it to me then.

I have called you several times about a dealership a long while back, spoke to you briefly ONCE after lots of unanswered calls, you said you would call back, but never did.

22 dynos throughout the UK, blimey! List them..........

EDIT: BTW Jayson, this isn't an attack on you, being in the business myself, I know how busy you are. But, I really havn't had a great experiance dealing with you.



Edited by SHEPSM3
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 22:53

I do hope this isn't going to be one of those threads that ends up getting locked..

If you have any personal problems please sort them out off the forum, use PM's or emails - there is even a chat room (if it works?).

Thank you.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 22:57

Just my view - sorry!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 22:57

I get a little confused as to exactly what people expect from a remap when I read some of the posts. When all said and done its a couple of hundred quid remap.To be realistic I would never expect huge gains from an outlay like that. If people are expecting big gains then perhaps they should be taking their cars to Alpina or Hartge. You'll get huge gains from their tunings but probably very little change from £10k. I think from everything I've ever read about remaps you can be lucky or unlucky. Some cars improve a bit and others don't.

[quote darren s]

I think Paul rosche and his team of designers who built the E36 evo engine know what they are doing,is there any hard evidence that you get better fuel economy as well as performance,or maybe Mr rosche,and his team are not quite up to scratch.

Any factory std engine has the capability to give more power or better performance. If they came out of the factory at peak tune anyone with a 320i would be able to run it in the WTCC and compete with Andy Priaulx, I think not!!

1998 E36 318iS Saloon   
1989 E30 318i. Coupe
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2006 at 23:20

I can only appologise if you feel let down, i assure you this is something i take seriously as i do my dealer network.

If you would like to call me at the beginning of next week i am sure we can have a decent chat about the systems availible.

Again, i must stress that work has taken over much of my time over the past year which is why emails dont always get answered immediately (have a different system for dealers)

BTW: Dynos are for a large uk exhaust dealer spread over the uk.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-June-2006 at 08:41
Originally posted by steven.seed steven.seed wrote:

I get a little confused as to exactly what people expect from a remap when I read some of the posts. When all said and done its a couple of hundred quid remap.To be realistic I would never expect huge gains from an outlay like that. 



You don't expect huge gains as you obviously have some background knowledge.
But others might believe 20bhp+ figures and go for it.
I am not questioning the remap business at all, just want to see the reality not been bent.
As soon you modify your engine, you WILL need a remap from somebody who knows of how to do it properly.
I had a custom remap once and the car was driving not very pleasent. Someone else who knows how to map a car sorted it out.(there was a 20bhp DIP removed in low/mid revs)
Just to avoid any confusion, NOBODY mentioned in this thread was involved in this. Just as an example.
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-June-2006 at 08:54

I would like to make this VERY VERY VERY clear, and the owner and poster of this thread will confirm.

I stated VERY clearly that the remap we did on this car did NOT give the full gains.

The car had several faults and problems we cured in the process as we do on all cars we modify.

I made it 100% clear about this and he will confirm (as can the other 2 forum members who were at our workshop at the same time)

In fact any one of the 100+ forum members who have had there cars mapped by us can confirm we always state this very clearly that if the car has faults then of course the gains can be higher due to the car running better after the resets and fault fixing without the map playing any part.

On this engine i would expect a true 12hp gain top end with torque and power gains from 2600rpm (ish) throughout the range.

Also having the 155 limiter removed.

This is common over many brands and models.

We had a 130pd golf come to us which put out 80 ish horsepower before we did anything.

After clearing some faults and earthing the maf and doing the remap the car went too over 170hp.

Now never in a million years would we say we mapped the car to give it a 90hp gain.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-June-2006 at 09:55

[QUOTE=UweM3] 
You don't expect huge gains as you obviously have some background knowledge.
QUOTE]

To be honest Uwe I have very little technical knowledge but I try to be realistic. I look at it like this, which maybe a little simplistic. (like me, simple but happy  ) 

Lots of motorsport teams spend thousands,even hundreds of thousands to tune cars via their ECU's to gain tenths of a second per lap over their opposition so what realistically can I expect from my small investment in a remap.Yes on occasions with certain engines I'm sure big gains can be made but every car is different, every driver is different so surely every remap will behave differently and we cannot base our expectations on the best result achieved all the time. When I decided to have mine done I read lots of posts some praising remaps other saying that they had no or even negative results. I think sometimes its hard to say yes I can feel benefits as there is no base line to work from unless you drove your car around the same circuit time after time in exactly the same way and conditions. In normal everyday driving we don't do that. Despite reading some of the negative stuff I decided to take the chance. My car is not suddenly a screaming monster with masses of extra power on tap, the differences appear to be very subtle but enough to just add to the driving experience. There has been an improvement in fuel consumption. First tankful was a bit dissapointing as it onlyworked out to around 1.2 mpg more although this could me having a heavy right foot for the first couple of weeks. Second tankful has gone up to approx 3.7mpg more, so that to me is a worthwhile benefit which in effect should return my investment over the next 12 to 18 months.

I as said I'm not very technically knowledgeable in this area but I have the common sense to recognise that there are too many variables involved for this type of tuning to always turn out as we would like.   Steve.

 

1998 E36 318iS Saloon   
1989 E30 318i. Coupe
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-June-2006 at 11:49
Originally posted by chippeduk chippeduk wrote:

I would like to make this VERY VERY VERY clear, and the owner and poster of this thread will confirm.


I stated VERY clearly that the remap we did on this car did NOT give the full gains.


The car had several faults and problems we cured in the process as we do on all cars we modify.


I made it 100% clear about this and he will confirm (as can the other 2 forum members who were at our workshop at the same time)




just read through the post again and all I can read is 281 before and 301 after the remap. Can you show me where you made it clear that this GAIN was NOT due to the remap alone??

Originally posted by chippeduk chippeduk wrote:


In fact any one of the 100+ forum members who have had there cars mapped by us can confirm we always state this very clearly that if the car has faults then of course the gains can be higher due to the car running better after the resets and fault fixing without the map playing any part.


On this engine i would expect a true 12hp gain top end with torque and power gains from 2600rpm (ish) throughout the range.


Also having the 155 limiter removed.


This is common over many brands and models.


We had a 130pd golf come to us which put out 80 ish horsepower before we did anything.


After clearing some faults and earthing the maf and doing the remap the car went too over 170hp.


Now never in a million years would we say we mapped the car to give it a 90hp gain.



Don't throw turbo cars into this discussion please.....

And you still haven't given any comment about the DIN figures either.
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-June-2006 at 16:09

I dont have to explain here as your not my customer.

I explained to the person who started this thread, the customer.

Please feel free to pm him to confirm if you feel the need.

I wont comment on the dyno directly simply because i feel it will make a few people try to discredit my responce and it will prove a poinless effort for me.

I find it pleasurable to think that there are always a certain few who like to make out i am the least knowledgable person on dyno`s even tough i have 2 of them.

 


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