Your Oil Questions answered |
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Howard
Moderator Group Did I say thaaaat? Joined: 14-October-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 735 |
Topic: Your Oil Questions answered Posted: 28-June-2004 at 14:15 |
Here is a note from Simon Barnard -
Dear Member, My name is Simon Barnard and I own an oil distribution business in the South West. I have been invited by the BMW Car Club GB Committee to run an “Oil Advice and Recommendations” service for your Club, which is a registered Member of our Clubs Oil Scheme for which this is a FREE service. We deliver all oils by AMTRAK “overnight” service anywhere in mainland UK. I have not posted this topic to advertise my Company and will be publishing no prices here on the General Forum. Prices can be obtained by email. I'm here to answer questions, give advice and recommendations to the Members of this Club. I accept that everyone knows everything there is to know about oil, and the best oils to use in their cars, so it may fall on deaf ears, but most Clubs find my services and prices a benefit to their Members. Hopefully I can at least expose some of the myths and give sound "technical" advice. I would like to point out that, I sell Castrol, Mobil, Silkolene, Fuchs and Total Oils and have no particular loyalty to one brand (Customers buy what they are comfortable with) however, I normally recommend oils based on the following criteria: 1) Technical Specifications 2) Quality compared to others of the same performance 3) Price comparisons (VFM) Naturally, I have my favourites, but this is based on quality and performance and whether I would use them myself in my cars. Many of the oils I sell are not available in the shops or the sheds but are specialist oils only available through Authorised Distributors like myself (e.g. I don't sell Magnatec as it's a "shed" grade but I do to supply Castrol Performance 10w-40 semi-syn not available in the shops). On a public forum there are drawbacks, especially if the product is made by a supplier of mine so I may "duck" some questions and reply to you personally by PM. My opinions are frank but based on facts so I'll apologise in advance if I upset anyone. I will ALWAYS give you the "best advice", but you don't have to take it. I look forward to being of service to BMW Car Club GB Members and Forum users. Simon Barnard Partner Opie Oils So it is now up to you. Ask away Edited by Howard |
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 14:26 |
Thanks for the introduction Howard. A much debated and complicated issue is the quality of oils but, let me assure you...........You always get what you pay for! Food for thought! Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D Chemist for 40 years. Quote: Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions. We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for! Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”? Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics! The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil, such as PRO S or PRO R. This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for! Unquote: This article is something that all car owners should read and understand before buying oil and I’ve posted this with Johns kind permission.
Cheers, Simon Barnard
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email: sales@opieoils.co.uk Phone: 01209 202944 |
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor Joined: 27-August-2003 Location: Lost somewhere in time... Status: Offline Points: 6484 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 14:46 |
Simon, I have a few questions. 1) What do you mean by "Shed" grade oil. 2) I currently use Mobil 1 in my BMW 328. What do you think of this oil and would you recommend it for my car which has done 100k. 3) I used standard mineral oil in my previous cars, Castrol GTX. Would I have seen any benefits from using a proper synthetic instead bearing in mind I have never owned a car with less than 70K on the clock. 4) What in your opinion is the best reasonably priced oil availible.
Edited by Peter Fenwick |
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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Howard
Moderator Group Did I say thaaaat? Joined: 14-October-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 735 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 14:52 |
The oil recomended by BMW for the gearbox of my 1989 M635 CSi is Mobil SHC 630. My local dealer says that this is no longer available.
1. Is he correct. 2. If he is, what oil should I use as a replacement. |
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ian332isport
Really Senior Member I Joined: 20-September-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 342 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 15:17 |
Simon, What oil would you recommend for the E36 M3 3.2 Evo engine ? I believe BMW currently specify 10w60 Castrol TWS, but this is very hard to find outside of the dealer network. Is this much different to Castrol RS 10w60 ? Cheers, Ian. |
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If it ain't broke, Modify it!!
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 15:33 |
Peter, By shed grades I mean oils only available there (Halfords Own etc) which are blended by the major oil companies to meet a specification say 10w-40 semi synthetic API SJ/SL but are made to a budget. Quality additives like Viscosity improvers, detergents, dispersants, antiwear agents, friction modifiers, pour-point depressants, antioxidants, foam inhibitors and corrosion inhibitors are expensive and savings have to be made when working to a budget. Ever bought paint in B&Q with Dulux on the can and then realised that it only covers half the area of the real thing from your local Dulux Trade Centre? It's never half the price of the real thing though usually 75%! Mobil 1 is a good oil, I sell it but are we talking about 0w-40? The recommended grades depend on whether you are looking for a Longlife oil (BMW LL) or you are changing your oil on a more frequent basis. The recommended range is very wide 0w-30 (LL01), 0w-40 (LL01), 5w-40 and 10w-40. Other than the 10w-40, all others are Fully synthetics. To make a simplistic comment about these oils, they could be used as follows: 0w's (LL01) Fully synthetic oils which have longer drain periods but are the most expensive (if your draining the oil in less than 6000 miles, you are wasting money) 5w-40 Fully synthetic oils that give better cold start protection than 10w because they circulate better being thinner 5w instead of 10w and will give a better protection when hot as a good Fully synthetic oils will be more resilliant to thinning down at high temperatures. If good viscosity improvers are used in the formulation the oil will resist shearing and breaking down better. 10w-40 Semi-synthetic is good value for money and if drained at shorter intervals will be perfectly fine in your engine. You need to weigh up the costs/benefits based on your mileage and the way you drive the car. Synthetic oils are without a doubt better, even in older cars as they last longer at high temperaures without "thinning down" and flow better at lower temperatures (cold starts) when around 70+ percent of the engine wear occurrs. Ester synthetics are the best as I will explain in another post. As regards to value, you need to compare what I have said to a price list and you'll need to email me for one sales@opieoils.co.uk. Hope this helps Regards Simon
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Use the code BAVBOARD and get 10% Club Discount
email: sales@opieoils.co.uk Phone: 01209 202944 |
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 15:36 |
Howard, I don't understand your dealers comments as the recommended oil has to DEXRON II which is certainly available. Perhaps you could email me what it says in the handbook and I'll investigate further for you, I'll guarantee we have an oil for you.
Regards Simon |
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Use the code BAVBOARD and get 10% Club Discount
email: sales@opieoils.co.uk Phone: 01209 202944 |
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mmm-five
Really Senior Member I Joined: 16-January-2003 Status: Offline Points: 343 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 15:39 |
I'm currently using the Silkolene Pro R 15w50 in my M5, but I can't get used to the red colour of the oil!
After 142k miles it is still going strong - although I do give it a good few miles at low revs to get the oil up to a reasonable temperature. BTW the oil is changed every 3000-4000 miles! Edited by mmm-five |
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dave 328
Really Senior Member II Joined: 21-October-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 835 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 15:50 |
I use Mobil 1 5W 40 Synergy <- (I think thats what it says from memory - the supposedly new blend stuff). I buy this from France when I visit as it is cheaper (about £20), but how come I haven't seen it in the UK. The Mobil I have seen here is normally 0W 40 and the 15W 50 Motorsport stuff.
I understand this is fine for my car (58K miles 328) but curious as to why this vicosity isn't available in the UK - I know some countries sell different viscosities depending on their ambient temp, but surely France isn't any different in climate temp. |
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328 Coupe Sport, Digital climate, full leather, OBD computer, De-restricted with M50 manifold, big bore throttle, chippeduk remap, custom cold cone intake and X-brace |
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 15:55 |
Ian, For M3 1992-95 and 1995-99 All year round. The recommended oil is 5w-40 Fully Syn CCMC G5 Would recommend: (all BMW approved) Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL 5w-40 Fully Synthetic Siklolene PRO S 5w-40 Ester Fully Synthetic Total Quartz 9000 5w-40 Fully Synthetic I sell Castrol RS 10w-60 but it is very heavy being a 60, even hot-running engines do not need SAE 60 oil these days. (120-130C). SAE 60 is heavier than most SAE 90 gear oils. If an oil is too thick, it de-aerates slowly, leading to cavitation in the oil pump, or the bearings being fed slugs of air along with the oil. Your handbook will give the recommended viscosity and I would confidently say that 10w-60 will not be mentioned. Hope this helps Regards Simon
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Use the code BAVBOARD and get 10% Club Discount
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 16:03 |
mmm-five Ahhhhh a man talking my language who uses the best! Esters, yes the best but very specialist and not used by very many manufacturers these days due to cost. Silkolene is an exception because of their excellent range of bike oils. The Silkolene PRO S and PRO R range are IMHO the best you can buy for your money but, I hear you all asking........ WHY ARE ESTERS SO GOOD? They assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction. They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away). They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures. This is in essence what Magnatec pretends to be but is not. The process is called electrosyntec as patented by Silkolene. Hope this helps Regards Simon |
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Use the code BAVBOARD and get 10% Club Discount
email: sales@opieoils.co.uk Phone: 01209 202944 |
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dave 328
Really Senior Member II Joined: 21-October-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 835 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 16:18 |
So does Mobil 1 contain these esters as I bought a Rover Coupe Turbo with 35K miles and it had very slight weaps of oil from some gaskets (cam cover etc) I presume as it had Full Rover history and they use Castrol Magnetec had been used previously. then I used Mobil from then on and the engine 'dried up' from leaks and was still leak free when I sold it at 94K miles. |
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328 Coupe Sport, Digital climate, full leather, OBD computer, De-restricted with M50 manifold, big bore throttle, chippeduk remap, custom cold cone intake and X-brace |
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ian332isport
Really Senior Member I Joined: 20-September-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 342 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 16:29 |
How much would you be able to supply the Silkolene PRO S 5w-40 Ester Fully Synthetic for ? I'm due a service very soon, and would like to give it a try if it's not silly money. For the record, I don't use the 10w60 Castrol, but the 0w40 Castrol RS (Halfords again ) I don't actually have a handbook for the car/engine, as the engine is fitted in an E30 325i chassis Feel free to PM me the price if you don't wish to post on the forum. Thanks, Ian. |
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If it ain't broke, Modify it!!
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 28-June-2004 at 16:31 |
Dave, The simple answer is NO but........................ The league table of synthetics works something like this from good to excellent so as to speak Hydrotreated Mineral Oils (HC hydrocracked) Synthetic Hydrocarbons (POA polyalphaolefins) Esters This is the principle but a POA with an excellent VI impover added (to give good shear stability) will be pretty close. The edge is the fact that the ester is surface-active and the POA is not. Mobil 1 is a good oil and that's why I sell it but it's not the same. Cheers Simon
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Use the code BAVBOARD and get 10% Club Discount
email: sales@opieoils.co.uk Phone: 01209 202944 |
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 29-June-2004 at 10:18 |
Recommendations If you would like recommendations, to speed up my response it would be most helpful if you could provide the following information:
Make Model Year Engine size Engine type (petrol/diesel) Any Mods Handbook recommendations are also helpful in the case of some models but not essential. Thanks for your cooperation Simon Barnard |
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Use the code BAVBOARD and get 10% Club Discount
email: sales@opieoils.co.uk Phone: 01209 202944 |
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II Original and STILL best Joined: 26-March-2004 Location: East Sussex/Kent border Status: Offline Points: 2098 |
Posted: 29-June-2004 at 11:47 |
Hi Simon. Recomendation please? BMW 323i, 1996, M52 B25 - 2494cc pertrol. Mods: supersprint exhaust, High flow inlet manifold, overbored throttle body, K&N panel with debaffled airbox and cold air ducting. I always run high fat fuels (optimax etc). I use the car entusiastically when warm, a lot of high speed motorway work with the head temperature at about 95C. Occasional short journeys but the head is always up to operating temperature before journeys end. FYI current oil shows 4bar @ 2000 rpm cold and 1.9 bar @ 2000 warm. Unsure of brand of oil, but from BMW dealer. |
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 29-June-2004 at 13:01 |
Sleeper. The recommended specs are as follows: BMW LL98 (Now replaced by LL01) ACEA A2/A3 The choices you have are as follows: 0w-40 Fully Syn (LL01/98) 5w-40 Fully Syn (ACEA A2/A3) 10w-40 Semi Syn (ACEA A2/A3) I have a fairly long list but you need to consider price against how often you change the oil to detemine the best solution. Recommendation (based on meeting the above specs) Castrol RS Power 0w-40 Fully Syn (LL01/98) Mobil 1 0w-40 Fully Syn (LL01/98) Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL 5w-40 Fully Syn (ACEA A3) Silkolene PRO S 5w-40 Ester Fully Syn (ACEA A3) Total Quartz 9000 5w-40 Fully Syn (ACEA A3) Silkolene or Fuchs XTR 10w-40 Semi-syn (ACEA A3) Castrol Performance 10w-40 Semi-syn (ACEA A3) All the above are BMW Approved but personally I would use a 5w-40 Fully syn as it will give better protection than the Semi-syns but does not cost as much as the 0w's. If you would like some prices, you'll need to email me. Hope this helps, Cheers Simon |
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Use the code BAVBOARD and get 10% Club Discount
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Eamo
Moderator Group Joined: 13-May-2003 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 3450 |
Posted: 29-June-2004 at 13:33 |
Simon
1988 e30 Evo II m3, s14 engine, 2.3 petrol, 124,000KM 1/2 track days year with around 150 miles week of average normal driving with quick blasts here and there. no mods whatsoever - totally standard. not worried about price as I only want the best. currently using magnatec 10/40 and used mobil 1 10/40 prior to that. waht would you recommend?? |
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 29-June-2004 at 14:27 |
Eamo, Would recommend you use "all year round" a 5w-40 fully synthetic meeting CCMC G5 Or for -20 to 20 degrees you can use a G5 10w-40 semi-syn (the cheaper option) The fully will give better protection for reasons stated earlier on this thread. Cheers Simon Check your PM's please. |
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Use the code BAVBOARD and get 10% Club Discount
email: sales@opieoils.co.uk Phone: 01209 202944 |
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Francisco
Newbie Joined: 30-April-2004 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 9 |
Posted: 29-June-2004 at 16:26 |
Hi! 98' M roadster 85000 km (+/- 50000mls) I live in Portugal and in the summer temperatures rise up to 40ºC and I use the car very hard and on the ocasional track day. I change the oil every 6000 mls and I got a gruppeM induction and Superchips. I use Castrol TWS 10W 60 for the summer which I buy from BMW and Castrol RS 0W 40 for the winter which I buy from local supermarket. What do yu reckon? Thanks in advance
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