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mikee
Senior Member I
Joined: 12-February-2005
Location: lundun
Status: Offline
Points: 107
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Posted: 04-January-2006 at 13:49 |
Jonners wrote:
...but don't agree that the e36 engine was genuine m power - just a tweeked up standard engine if you ask me... |
how very dare you!
the 3.2 evo engine is fantastic. few problems with vanos but come on. its essentially half of the engine fitted to a mclaren f1! 321 hp from a 3.2 ten years ago was phenomenal. the 46 m3 only produces 343 hp and that was developed a few years later. granted its not great round town but get it up over 5000rpm and its great. especially coupled with the smg 'box.
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m3 evo convertible
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bhp555
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-February-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 176
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Posted: 05-January-2006 at 14:38 |
...this topic is surprisingly quiet......guess the e36 attracts a more mature owner........
......only joking...... how's the ring these days......
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kevin
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 29-November-2002
Location: Camberley, Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 3189
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Posted: 05-January-2006 at 15:18 |
Maybe we should get Tiff to time one around anglesey and see if that
provokes a similar reaction to the hysterics regarding the E30 M3
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Kevin
'04 E46 330Ci Convertible
'08 E61 535d Touring (TorqueMeister Towbarge)
’95 E34 M5
’89 E30 M3 (Cecotto)
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Pooky
Senior Member II
Joined: 23-May-2005
Location: Coventry
Status: Offline
Points: 205
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Posted: 05-January-2006 at 16:18 |
kevin wrote:
Maybe we should get Tiff to time one around anglesey and see if that provokes a similar reaction to the hysterics regarding the E30 M3 |
I doubt it. We tend not to be quite so insecure about it all.....the E30 is the only........snore.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........
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kevin
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 29-November-2002
Location: Camberley, Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 3189
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Posted: 05-January-2006 at 17:10 |
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Kevin
'04 E46 330Ci Convertible
'08 E61 535d Touring (TorqueMeister Towbarge)
’95 E34 M5
’89 E30 M3 (Cecotto)
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breeze
Senior Member I
Joined: 07-October-2004
Status: Offline
Points: 106
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Posted: 05-January-2006 at 17:10 |
Pooky wrote:
kevin wrote:
Maybe we should get Tiff to time one around anglesey and see if that provokes a similar reaction to the hysterics regarding the E30 M3 |
I doubt it. We tend not to be quite so insecure about it all.....the E30 is the only........snore.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........
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How dare you pooky!
I'll have you know that the e30 M3 was the most successful touring car of the 1960's!
Wait... what was that? Slower on track than a new fiesta?!?
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E36 M3 Evolution
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kevin
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 29-November-2002
Location: Camberley, Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 3189
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Posted: 05-January-2006 at 17:15 |
1960's ...cheek..... late 80's and early 90's
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Kevin
'04 E46 330Ci Convertible
'08 E61 535d Touring (TorqueMeister Towbarge)
’95 E34 M5
’89 E30 M3 (Cecotto)
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playo
Senior Member I
Joined: 18-October-2005
Location: south wales
Status: Offline
Points: 138
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Posted: 08-January-2006 at 03:23 |
BREEZE,
my how the tables have turned!!.........
come on e30 boys what you say to that (quite alot of boring statistics i'd imagine)
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'98 M3 evo conv'-Sold
'91 E30 M3'
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andyclient
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 26-October-2004
Location: suffolk
Status: Offline
Points: 648
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Posted: 08-January-2006 at 08:03 |
playo wrote:
BREEZE,
my how the tables have turned!!.........
come on e30 boys what you say to that (quite alot of boring statistics i'd imagine)
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lol
Andy
Edited by andyclient
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01 E46 320d Touring
88 E30 M3 Sadly Gone
93 E36 325 TD Gone but still going
87 E30 Hartge 325 (gone but not forgotten)
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Dannyboy
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 24-August-2005
Location: Hunstanton
Status: Offline
Points: 301
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Posted: 08-January-2006 at 10:15 |
mikee wrote:
Jonners wrote:
...but don't agree that the e36
engine was genuine m power - just a tweeked up standard engine if you
ask me... |
how very dare you!
the 3.2 evo engine is fantastic. few problems with vanos but come on.
its essentially half of the engine fitted to a mclaren f1! 321 hp from a 3.2
ten years ago was phenomenal. the 46 m3 only produces 343 hp and that
was developed a few years later. granted its not great round town but get
it up over 5000rpm and its great. especially coupled with the smg 'box. [/
P]
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Do any of them actually produce 321 Bhp?
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1992 clio 1.8 16V Good
1998 Subaru Impreza Turbo Terzo Great
1987 M3 Diamond Black Awesome (Now awesomer with Billys & Eibach)
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mikee
Senior Member I
Joined: 12-February-2005
Location: lundun
Status: Offline
Points: 107
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Posted: 08-January-2006 at 12:01 |
yes. quite a few. never had mine dynod but im sure there are plenty of people on here that have. having driven both an m3 and a 328i sport (the nearest non m-power car to an m3), i can say hands down that it is not just a 'tweeked' engine, considering there is only 400cc difference in the displacement. i can understand some people knocking the visual outlook of the e36 m3, but for some of us it works.
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m3 evo convertible
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BM Fan
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 19-January-2004
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1054
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Posted: 08-January-2006 at 17:04 |
I think that the only Evos that made 321bhp were tested running 100
Octane and from what I've read very few in standard form on standard
fuel hit the 321.
I have also had a 328 and to be honest the Evo only comes into its own
at 90-100+mph. As an everyday driver I found the 328 just as much
fun. Tracked both of them also, and while the M had much better
balance and poise (non sport 328) due to the suspension and the LSD on
a tight and twisty circuit there's not a lot between them.
I did enjoy the E36 Evo but not enough to make me keep it as I needed
it to be an everyday driver and to set it up properly for track use
would have cost a fair bit and rendered it useless for the road.
I'm afraid my next M if I get around to it will be an E30 or else I'll
be in looking in the Caterham or 968CS bracket for as a track machine.
One point that was mentioned above was the 0-60 time 5.4, the 328 with
128bhp less was tested around 6.5 at the same time???????? While
at the top end, the EVO would leave the 328 for dead, on the track
through the bends where 2 / 3 gear is used that top end is useless.
Just my 2c worth - sorry for upsetting anyone
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Martin
In BMW exile at the moment (Shame on me for lurking!!!)
Previous Models
2001 E39 520i Auto
1996 E36 M3 Evo Individual
1996 E36 328i Coupe
1997 E36 318i Conv
1992 E36 316i Sln
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bmwcrazy
Really Senior Member II
1995 M5,1995 318ISE,1997 325
Joined: 24-October-2005
Location: (glasgow the wee apple) big dazz
Status: Offline
Points: 661
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Posted: 08-January-2006 at 17:13 |
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M3PSM
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 27-May-2003
Location: Tropical Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 451
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Posted: 08-January-2006 at 17:54 |
I agree to a degree that the E36 isn't as focussed as E30 M3 and is therefore not so "M" worthy. Even the GT isn't all it could be.
The same could be said for the E46 M3, whereas the the E46 M3 CSL is more like it, so why wasn't the CSL the M3 and the M3 the 330GT or suchlike.
But, that said, there seem to be a plethora of E30 variants. Are they all as focussed as the original, or do they have air-con, leather, softer suspension and electric windows too?
As the E36 M3 is the most track oriented of the E36 range, I'm happy for it to where the M3 badge.
Would I prefer an E30? I think not. Slower, lhd only, and CRX, Ford Focus etc fodder.
Out of interest, what's faster on a track, a track prepped E30 or E36???
I can see why the E30 is so loved and had wanted one for years when I was a lad. Also, respect is due to the guys who spend fortunes keeping this peice of history on the road.
So, in my opinion, all things considered, it deserves it's badge, but it could have been so much better.
Paul
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Drive it like you stole it!
___________________________
1995 3.0 E36 Coupe
1989 E30 325 Touring
1992 Yamaha TDM 850
www.myallracing.co.uk
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David321
Senior Member II
Joined: 13-October-2004
Status: Offline
Points: 202
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 04:24 |
BM Fan wrote:
I think that the only Evos that made 321bhp were tested running 100 Octane and from what I've read very few in standard form on standard fuel hit the 321.
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Good job Tesco have started selling 99 Octance Super then (and it's cheap...)
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E36 M3 Evo - Techno Violet
Previous & current rides...
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BM Fan
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 19-January-2004
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1054
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 04:44 |
David321 wrote:
Good job Tesco have started selling 99 Octance Super then (and it's cheap...) |
Nice one - we can only get 95 over here in the Emerald Isle - nothing
higher due to our wonderfull government whacking an additional tax on
anything above 95 - nice of them!!!!
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Martin
In BMW exile at the moment (Shame on me for lurking!!!)
Previous Models
2001 E39 520i Auto
1996 E36 M3 Evo Individual
1996 E36 328i Coupe
1997 E36 318i Conv
1992 E36 316i Sln
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E30 M3 Evo 1
Senior Member I
BMW M = Big Money Worries Multiplied
Joined: 20-April-2005
Location: Billericay, Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 118
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 07:47 |
Hmmmm.......Interesting Pro's & Con's being thrown about.
Why not look at it from this point of view: The Engines.
If an engine has an 'S' prefix then why not call it an 'M' car? After all, every M car that I've seen has an 'S' engine (Does that include the US market?) This might upset a few E28 M535i owners with their M30 engines but please don't shoot me!
Or how about the VIN number rule? If it starts with WBS it's an M car, if WBA or something else then it's not.
Just a thought.......
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Alpine White E30 M3 Evo 1
Imola Red E46 318TiSE Compact - Gone
Royal Blue E34 535i Sport - Gone but not Forgotten
Sparkling Graphite E90 320d SE.
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bhp555
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-February-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 176
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 16:21 |
....So what makes the e28, e34, e39, e60, e46, M635csi, etc, M power cars and the e36 not...
With the exception of the M1, a limited production (453 units) car, originally built with the help of Lamborghini!!! for Group 5 racing and the e30 M3*, all M power cars are basically built to the same formula, discrete and fast. The real success of BMW M came to be after the demise of the M1, fitting this engine to the production 5/6 series was the real start of things to come, not race cars.
*To be absolutely fair to the e30 M3, it's was only the boot lid/window mods and wheel arch extensions which made the e30 M3 so visually different to the other M cars..and I guess in stripped down form, it was a little more focused, which was something not to be repeated by BMW M...
All the M power cars (with the exception of the M1 and perhaps the e30 M3), have followed the same basic rule:
BMW Motorsport HQ take a basic shell from the standard production line and move it to an M division plant assembly line.....here they fit every part from the M division parts bin, from the cross member to the headlining and then transplant a Paul Rosche engine, etc......and hey presto an M car!! Tried and tested at the ring……..a wickedly fast but very standard looking car….
BMW M would not be the force they are today if they stuck to building only M1s and later e30 M3s………. “Vorsprung durch Technik" as I think the opposition say….
By the way, there is as much difference between the e36 328is and the e36 M3 (3.0l) as there is between the e30 318is and the e30 M3…….. so less of the toffee.
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DAM998
Senior Member I
Joined: 05-April-2004
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 116
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 12:07 |
M3PSM wrote:
Would I prefer an E30? I think not. Slower, lhd only, and CRX, Ford Focus etc fodder.
Paul |
Well - if all you want is straight line speed and 100mph+ performance then an E36 M3 is def way better than an E30 M3. But I think a E36 328i Sport is fairly close [and visually indistinguishable] to an E36 M3 - 9/10's of the car in my opinion having owned one [328] and driven loads of E36 M3's. But an 325i Sport is a totally different car to an E30 M3 and you cant compare them...
Saying that, an E36 M3 isnt much dearer than a good 328 Sport so if I was in the market for an E36 I;d buy an M3 - they are great cars and have nicer seats etc than a 328. And 328 Sports [with the lsd] are quite rare...
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 13:33 |
but there are plenty of cars that are faster than the e36 m3 so the crx/e30 m3 point is meaningless
outright speed tells you very little
the reason i said that the e36 engine was just a tweeked up standard engine is because it isn't a special motor designed and built for motorsport - remember that word anyone???
the original m1/m5/m6 engine that spawned the e30 m3 engine has its origins in the Batmobile twin cam monsters.
the e36 m3 engine is a souped up 325i engine - a splendid engine no doubt, but not a Motorsport engine
without a Motorsport engine the M badge means less - fabulous for the Marketing department, but the bloodline/pedigree isn't there...
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