MG Rover - tis a sad day |
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Dergside
Really Senior Member II Joined: 16-May-2004 Location: Mid West, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 4000 |
Topic: MG Rover - tis a sad day Posted: 22-April-2005 at 16:51 |
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That is the time when employee's should vote with their feet, but unfortunately the most exploited in this way are usually the most vulnerable and least able to do that. That is where unions should be stepping in, but it usually doesn't work like that. In many cases today, unions are big businesses themselves and don't have too much time for the "little people". My gripe in these situations are that at least employers are upfront about the profit motive. |
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rubberknees50
Really Senior Member II Does it have chrome bumpers? Joined: 26-July-2004 Location: Telford, Shropshire Status: Offline Points: 1074 |
Posted: 22-April-2005 at 14:02 | |
Sadly many firms don't go with either system, and workers just get told there's no money for wages, work harder and there might be one day! |
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IanT
E28 528, E23 735 |
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 22-April-2005 at 13:21 | |
Step down maybe but at least they might get back on the rails again..if only in a financial way.
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II Say Neigh to Gatsos Joined: 11-April-2003 Location: Please let it be Ireland Status: Offline Points: 6381 |
Posted: 22-April-2005 at 13:03 | |
Hmm... working for Notwork Rail.... isn't that a bit of a step down for Rover workers? |
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 21-April-2005 at 08:06 | |
More job opportunities for those made redundant
This along with the oil industry wishing to retrain workers, looks on the face of it at least, that there may be a light at the end of this tragic tunnel after all...we can but hope. |
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October 2-6 2008 - Houston, Texas - Long Distance Wedding
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 21-April-2005 at 08:00 | |
October 2-6 2008 - Houston, Texas - Long Distance Wedding
March 15-April 1 2009 - Transatlantic Cruise October 10-25 2009 - China, Korea, Taiwan & Japan Cruise |
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Dergside
Really Senior Member II Joined: 16-May-2004 Location: Mid West, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 4000 |
Posted: 21-April-2005 at 06:53 | |
This is the essence of a good philosophical debate. On the one hand, you may take the view that an employee earns a salary required to maintain a certain standard of living and therefore takes in to account things like inflation, property prices, mortgage or rent costs, etc. and that when these things rise, so too should salaries by a similar %. On the other hand you have the perspective that says that an employee earns a salary that is appropriate to the value of the the job they do. Salary changes are linked to the rise, or fall, in the value of that job to the employer. Therefore factors such as inflation, etc, which are outside the control of the employer, should not have a bearing on the salary paid. Likewise, if the value of the job done increases by an amount greater than the rate of inflation, etc. then the salary should rise appropriately and independently of the factors such as inflation. To improve living standards in this situation involves an employee increasing their value by improving their skillset is some way. I'm not sure which viewpoint is right. I think an analysis of significant organizations that fail or have been run into the ground will find that they tend to be older, longer established companies with less flexible workforces (and management) where workpractices have become more important that work processes. The link between effort and reward (on both sides) has been blurred. Unions do have a very important role to play in ensuring that exploitation of staff does not occur but as you said, power influences actions as often as principles do. Again this is true of management equally often. The abuse of power, whoever does it, is not a noble thing. Edited by Dergside |
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor Joined: 27-August-2003 Location: Lost somewhere in time... Status: Offline Points: 6484 |
Posted: 21-April-2005 at 03:33 | |
Perhaps I shouldn't have made such a general statement, but it certainly proved a strong response! I'm not saying let the work force run the company, but how many times do we here about businesses making profits then announcing that there going to either cut the workforce or freeze salaries. I know that the item in the news only gave a limited amount of information but how, when the announced record profits this year, can they justify not paying everyone a fair cost of living rise, which IMO should be a matter of right. Without a cost of living rise you are effectively giving everyone a pay cut. WRT MG Rover, the management team all made sure they were alright before the company went under didn't they. One of them said on the news that they had taken the risks so they deserved the rewards. Well IMO you only get the rewards when you are successful and they were not! The trouble these days is that in terms of business the rights of the workers come a poor third behind those of the shareholders and the management. I suppose I am a bit sensitive about this issue because I worked for ICI for several years before they sold the business to Huntsman, where I learned exactly what the term 'management has its privillages' meant. I could go into lots of detail about exactly what this means but I would be typing all day! I am aware of course that not all companies operate like this. WRT your comment about sounding like a union official, the unions were/are as bad in some cases as the mangement. It's all about power and how it corrupts people. What's that quote...? Some thing like "Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely"
Edited by Peter Fenwick |
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II Say Neigh to Gatsos Joined: 11-April-2003 Location: Please let it be Ireland Status: Offline Points: 6381 |
Posted: 20-April-2005 at 17:36 | |
.....speaking of which, you'll love this: News reaches me that Tata (originator of the Sh*ttyRover) may be interested in buying bits of what's left of MG Rover..... There's something quite exquisite about this.... |
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II Say Neigh to Gatsos Joined: 11-April-2003 Location: Please let it be Ireland Status: Offline Points: 6381 |
Posted: 20-April-2005 at 17:34 | |
...which explains the constant trickle of WCUK'ers settling down in Australia, Canada...... |
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MTEC530D
Banned User Joined: 01-February-2005 Location: stockton on tees Status: Offline Points: 150 |
Posted: 20-April-2005 at 15:54 | |
IMO the peole who owed rover and are closing it bought it for a very small fee(£10) i belive and now they are individual millionaires don't give a toss anymore so are closing plant while they're still rich. Its about time this country stopped giving all its best companies away to foreign countries. I used to say i was proud to be British but the way the country isgoing im not so sure any more.
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 20-April-2005 at 14:50 | |
The majority of the bosses who are often accused of being 'fatcats' are bosses/owners/directors of companies, such as Rover, who were at one time nationalised. When in 1979 the rollercoaster of denationalising everything in sight started, that is when the fatcats came into their own. The various Governments since then have effectively turned a very blind eye to their activities and as a result the likes of Rover cars, the coal industry, the steel industry etc that once made this country a great nation have all gone down the plughole while the fatcats got fatter and the governments of the day got backhanders.
Who suffers in the end? We all do to some extent but those who lose their jobs and their security and eventually their dignity lose the most. |
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October 2-6 2008 - Houston, Texas - Long Distance Wedding
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Coasting
Really Senior Member II www.TOTALTORQUE.net Joined: 05-February-2005 Location: Not with the two-faced bloke. Status: Offline Points: 2125 |
Posted: 20-April-2005 at 14:45 | |
Yes of course it was! However, his post was in reference to HSBC, not Rover, and the way I read it was directed at Management in general screwing the workforce and wasn't company specific. |
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II Say Neigh to Gatsos Joined: 11-April-2003 Location: Please let it be Ireland Status: Offline Points: 6381 |
Posted: 20-April-2005 at 13:52 | |
So this... ...wasn't actually a crap car, then? |
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Coasting
Really Senior Member II www.TOTALTORQUE.net Joined: 05-February-2005 Location: Not with the two-faced bloke. Status: Offline Points: 2125 |
Posted: 20-April-2005 at 13:00 | |
How can you say somethingso condemning on the basis of a couple of headline figures from organisations!!!!!! You sound like an archaic union official! Tell you what, let the work force run the company - they'll be out of jobs within weeks. I can appreciate an opinion that is a bit more specific, but not one that brackets every company in one statement!
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Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor Joined: 27-August-2003 Location: Lost somewhere in time... Status: Offline Points: 6484 |
Posted: 20-April-2005 at 03:10 | |
Speaking of fatcats it was on the news this morning that HSBC employees are voting whether to strike or not. The company anounced record profits of 10 billion for last year yet don't want to give a fair cost of living rise to the workers. In fact a certain percentage wont be getting anything. I bet the senior management aren't in that percentage. No matter what happens the management are always trying to screw the work force. |
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Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 19-April-2005 at 16:33 | |
Seems the Rover employees are to be offered retraining and possible
re-employment on the oil rigs. Could be quite a beneficial move
for those willing to take it up.
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October 2-6 2008 - Houston, Texas - Long Distance Wedding
March 15-April 1 2009 - Transatlantic Cruise October 10-25 2009 - China, Korea, Taiwan & Japan Cruise |
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II Say Neigh to Gatsos Joined: 11-April-2003 Location: Please let it be Ireland Status: Offline Points: 6381 |
Posted: 19-April-2005 at 16:19 | |
Hmm, news reaches me from Ireland that Rover (Ireland) warranties may well be honoured.....
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 19-April-2005 at 14:44 | |
The demise of Rover will be a topic of conversation for months to come, 'who said what', 'who did what' etc etc
Along with the 3000 or so redundancies from the Index stores, things couldn't be worse for the upcoming election. Regardless who wins at the polls, the fatcats will always get fatter and there will always be dubious business dealings that end in tears. Those who have already lost their jobs and those who will do so in the snowball effect from Rover have very little to look forward to. Hopefully at Longbridge the awaited business park will be built as quickly as possible and the promised jobs will become available very soon. But we can't forget that its not just Longbridge that has been, and will be affected by this tragedy. This snowball is rolling out of control and anyone caught in its path will have their lives ripped apart and their futures placed in jeopardy, as will their children when they leave school. The lives touched by this outrage will probably never recover...apart from those who fleeced and drained the company bank accounts. |
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October 2-6 2008 - Houston, Texas - Long Distance Wedding
March 15-April 1 2009 - Transatlantic Cruise October 10-25 2009 - China, Korea, Taiwan & Japan Cruise |
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rubberknees50
Really Senior Member II Does it have chrome bumpers? Joined: 26-July-2004 Location: Telford, Shropshire Status: Offline Points: 1074 |
Posted: 19-April-2005 at 14:44 | |
Goes back to nationalised industries I suppose, "jobs for life" for most of us finished years ago, not everyone took note of all the school leavers, temps and agency workers being taken on as cheap labour, managements reluctance to issue even short term contracts. I hate to think about the skills base lost.
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IanT
E28 528, E23 735 |
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